Trauma creates a chronic state of contraction and doesn’t allow room for expansion. To nourish ourselves in mind, body, and spirit requires being able to expand and receive. In the short-term, the contraction of trauma keeps us safe. But in the long-term, it leaves us physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually hungry. Living in a chronic contractive state means we are keeping out what is dangerous, but we are also keeping out what is nourishing.
Syanna Wand is a trauma-informed, Embodied Healing Coach specializing in complex and developmental trauma as well as attachment wounds. With over six years of clinical experience working with both individuals and groups, she guides her clients back to a sense of wholeness by helping them restore a healthy nervous system, uncover the unconscious roots of their painful patterns and create safe, loving relationships with themselves and others.
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In this jam-packed and very nourishing episode, embodiment coach Syanna Wand and I…
- discuss trauma as a chronic contractive state that doesn’t allow for the expansion required to nourish ourselves
- talk about widening our windows of tolerance and how we work with our bodies to do that
- discuss heightened sensitivity (people who feel EVERYTHING) and how interoception can be scary and anxiety-inducing for people who want to feel in their bodies LESS, not more
- talk about feeling into the body when you experience health anxiety
- discuss the need-satisfaction cycle and how we get into habits of compulsively seeking fullness and aren’t totally sure how to stop once we begin to complete the need-satisfaction cycle
- have an in-depth discussion about caregivers, attunement needs, and self-sabotage
- talk about nourishment barriers — the blocks we have in place to nourishment because it feels dangerous and how we can move through those with boundary work and safe dialogue
- have a gentle and compassionate discussion about victim mentality as a space of chronic emotional hunger
- explore how identity as belonging and connection intersect with victimhood, illness, and wellness
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Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the show. I’m not even going to do an intro where I tell you about what’s going on in my life right now. I’m just going to jump straight into this episode because I’m so excited to share it with you. And I’m so excited for you to meet my guest. My guest is Cyanna wand Cyanna is a trauma informed embodied healing coach specializing in complex and developmental trauma, as well as attachment wounds. With over six years of clinical experience, working with both individuals and groups, she guides her clients back to a sense of wholeness by helping them restore a healthy nervous system, uncover the unconscious roots of their painful patterns and create safe, loving relationships with themselves and others.
This episode is so jam packed. Full with good, good stuff. I would highly recommend that you grab your journal and you take some notes during this episode and bookmark it because you’re going to want to come back to it and listen again. There’s just a lot to take in and digest, but it’s all such good nourishing healing stuff. And nourishing is a word that you were going to hear repeatedly throughout this episode. Nourishing is one of my favorite words.
In the universe, I feel like nourishing is such a full spacious. Delicious word. And when I think of nourishing myself, it goes beyond food. Although I certainly love to nourish myself with wonderful healing, real whole foods. When I think of nourishing myself, I think of time in nature, spending time alone.
Laying on the couch and reading a book for an entire afternoon. I think of snuggling with my kids or my husband. I think of laying in bed and bingeing on Netflix for a whole day. If that’s what I want to do. I think of rich conversations that I have with my friends. That’s what nourishing means to me. And if you have a trauma story, then maybe you don’t know.
What I’m talking about when I say nourishing, because your experience in life has been the opposite of nourishing. And that’s a lot of what Cyanna and I are talking about in this episode. In this episode, we are discussing trauma as a chronic contractive state that does not allow expansion and nourishment.
We talk about how we must be able to step outside of our windows of tolerance and widen them. If we want to expand and make room for nourishment. We discuss heightened sensitivity and interoception, which is feeling your body. And for a lot of us feeling into our bodies can be really scary and anxiety inducing.
So we talk about how we can work with our bodies to widen our windows of tolerance and how we can feel into our bodies, even in the presence of health anxiety, which is something that cyan and I both have dealt with. So that struggle is real. And we are talking about that in this episode. We’re discussing how and why we become intolerant of stress.
We’re talking about the need satisfaction cycle. We have a really in-depth discussion about self-sabotage and how that relates to what we experienced in childhood with our parents and caregivers and attunement needs not being met. We have a really gentle conversation about victimhood and how victimhood is a space of chronic emotional hunger. Victimhood is a space where we’re not being nourished.
And we explore identity as belonging and connection. And how that intersects in spaces of victim, hood, and illness and wellness.
So I want you to sit back, buckle up. Enjoy this, enjoy this ride. It is a good one. You are going to love cyanna talking to her was a nourishing conversation. Just to, to stay in the theme of the word nourishment it was just a nourishing conversation and i think i speak for both of us whenever i say that we both hope that you find this podcast episode to be especially nourishing and supportive on your journey to healing and wholeness
Hello. Syanna welcome to the holistic trauma healing podcast. Hi, thanks for having me. Yeah, I’m really excited. So I want to just. Introduce everybody to you, not your bio that I just read, but the reason why I ask you to come on the podcast was a quote that you shared on Instagram. And you said a history of scarcity and unmet needs can make it difficult to later tolerate the fulfillment.
We’ve been accustomed to living without often. This means we unconsciously push away that which might nourish us in an attempt to reestablish the comfort and familiarity of lack inside our bodies. My mind is like exploding and all of the ways. And as soon as I read that, I. Reached out to you and was like, hello, we need to have a chat about this.
Love it. I’m glad it was a good one for you. It was like, it really hit. And it’s actually something I never even thought about how. If we have a history of scarcity and unmet needs, that then becomes the familiar for our nervous systems. And then we’re actually pushing away the things that we need, or that would fulfill us because we’re seeking that familiar state, even though it’s a scarcity and unmet state.
Let’s talk about it. Yeah. Yeah. Let’s get into it. Before, when we were prepping for the podcast you mentioned that trauma is a chronic contractive state and it doesn’t allow us much expansion and to nourish ourselves mind, body, spirit Requires like being able to receive and expand. So let’s talk about trauma as a contractive state.
Yeah. Yeah, totally. I think that it’s important to preface, what trauma is and isn’t right. I know that’s it’s a word that’s becoming more commonplace in our vocabulary, but I still think there that at least this was the case for me a few years ago. Like I still didn’t totally understand what that meant.
And so in the nervous system, what trauma is it’s a state of overwhelm. That, because of that overwhelm, we’re not able to fully process whatever it is we’re experiencing. And so it gets stuck. Essentially. That’s what I mean, when we say stuck, it’s like it’s unresolved in our bodies because there was no chance to process it.
And so when you think about that, when you think about the fact that it’s unresolved and that it is, it remains within the nervous system as a unintegrated experience, then you start to understand, Oh, it it keeps us stuck in that. That state of fear, that state of overwhelm, and those are inherently contractive, right?
They’re not expansive and open States within our body. And so in order to receive nourishment, whether that is, love or food, or, anything that we’re taking in yeah. The experience of taking in. We have to be open to it. But if we have this unresolved trauma, especially if that trauma is complex and ongoing and longterm, then we are stuck in a contractive state that, that almost acts as like a barrier, because we’re not able to let in and take it.
This is even why we see things like digestive problems as related to trauma. Cause that is that taking in receiving experience. So trauma. When it’s left, unresolved keeps us contracted, keeps us protected. And that’s when we start to struggle with that letting in Experience. So yeah.
Yeah. Which in the longterm does not serve us very well. Yeah. Short term. It’s great. Oh, thank you body for, keeping me safe and long-term that chronic state of contraction. Physically mentally, spiritually, emotionally, it just leaves us hungry because we’re keeping out what is dangerous, but we’re also keeping out what is nourishing.
And so we are just left hungry, and the physical and metaphorical sense. We struggle in that way. Yeah, it’s painful. Yeah. It is painful, but it’s really beautifully put and The good news is it doesn’t have to be forever. Yeah, totally. So let’s talk about something I’ve shared on the podcast a lot, and I’ve done multiple Instagram stories about this is the process of leaning into discomfort.
And one of my mottos. That I’ve had for, I don’t know, almost a year now is I am comfortable being uncomfortable. And I put that into practice during the summer of 2020 when I gave myself a cold plunge challenge and I was going to go jump in the cold water of Lake superior by where I live every single day during the month of July.
Wow. And it was the most amazing experience ever because I went in there. Every day, knowing this is gonna suck, this is going to be really cold and really uncomfortable. But yeah, I’m training my body to be in a stressful situation and know that it can be okay because I history in my life is anytime I’ve experienced, like a lot of stress it’s typically affected my health, my physical health and my mental health.
And. It has always resulted, like whenever the stress is finally over, it would take me like a year to get my life like that. And it was, I realized like I don’t tolerate stress very well. Why is this? Oh, it’s because my nervous system is not very resilient because I have all of this shit from my childhood in this complex trauma and religious trauma and all different kinds of things.
And so that exercise in. Putting myself intentionally into uncomfortable situations, physically that I had complete control over knowing I choose when I get into this water. And I choose when I get out of it. It gave me control over the stress, which we don’t usually have in our normal lives. But it gave me complete control and I was able to. Expand my window of tolerance. And then it ended up having a carry over effect. It wasn’t just that my body became more comfortable being in the cold, but then it was like, I got more comfortable whenever something stressful would happen or whenever I would be in a conflict with one of my kids or my husband or something like that.
Can we talk about how we can build our tolerance working with not only the mind? Cause we’ve also talked about on the podcast a lot before that we can’t mantra our way out of a nervous system response. So how can we work with our bodies to make that window of tolerance bigger and allow for expansion and growth rather than that rigid construction?
Oh, that’s such a great story. I love that by the way. Cause one of the, what I’m hearing you say. And then I’ll answer your question. I promise. But what I’m hearing you say is that there was agency involved, right? Which is like the opposite of a traumatic experience where there’s no agency, that’s, there’s powerlessness at the root of that.
And so to go into stressful, but not dangerous situations with agency and a sense of having a break that you can pull at any moment in time, starts to make that experience feel. Not only tolerable, but even safe and maybe even I’m imagining. And you can tell me if this was true for you, but I’m imagining even pleasurable to some extent, like I did this, I feel that sense of accomplishment in my body and that in and of itself is like an expansive state.
Oh yeah. I felt like a total bad ass. Yeah, totally. But yeah, like at the end of that third, like I did it, I wanted to do it for 30 days straight and I ended up actually doing it for longer because I ended up falling in love with it. And I got to where my body actually began to crave the cold water. I couldn’t wait until I could.
I finished up all my work and make sure my kids were hanging out and doing something and be like, okay, I’m going, I’m getting in my car and I’m going now. And I would go by myself and, there were even days when, because Lake superior is like an inland ocean and there were days when the waves were just huge, just like ocean waves would be.
And I had to make the choice of okay, like the water’s a little rougher today. I’m going to have. Mindful of how far out I go and make sure I’m not getting tired and whatever, but yeah, I totally felt like I had really accomplished something big and I already can not wait. For the world to thought where I live to be able to go out and do it again.
Yeah. That’s that, and that’s that’s a good segue into what we’ll talk about here is that risk right risk when supported by safety, it becomes accessible. And that’s the thing that we have to talk about when we’re working with our nervous system, right? Is that for those of us with a traumatic history and those of us with a long history, Of chronic stress.
And the lack of foundational safety from maybe secure attachment, or just like a generally more easeful life experience. What that does right? Is it makes us. In tolerant of stress because we don’t have that agency because it’s all we’ve ever lived with. And so then we struggled to take risks, right?
Because risk isn’t inherently expansive. We’ve gotta be able to step outside the window of tolerance ever so slightly to be able to widen it, to be able to increase our capacity. And so w when we do that, And we do realize, Oh, I have this foundation, so now I can take a risk. Then it is so rewarding.
Yeah. You’re like, I’m a mom, a mother fucking bad ass. This is great, but we have to have that foundation. So that’s the work that, that. When I’m working with clients on increasing their window of tolerance and maybe even just their general capacity, both for external and internal stressors.
Cause those are different. What I feel inside my body can be a stressor, but also what I’m experiencing in the external world can be a stressor. And so when we’re working to build that capacity, I find that it’s twofold. It’s this It’s like this push pull where we’re reducing stress.
Right to be able to just calm the system down a little bit, but at the same time, we’re introducing carefully titrated stress to be able to build that tolerance up. So for example like what does that look like in the real world? For example, that might look like finding. Support systems to reduce stress that might look like lessening, activity to reduce stress that might look like changing up diet and nutrition to reduce stress.
And at the exact same time doing like emotional tolerance work or learning breath, work strategies, or learning how to interoception to feel the body in little bits. And so that’s that sort of titrated back and forth reduce overall stress, but also carefully introduce. Intentional stress as a way to expand the container.
Does that make sense? No, it totally makes sense. Totally. Yeah, dude. That’s right. That’s right up my alley. I feel like that’s what I was doing without knowing that’s what I was doing. Totally. Yeah, no, that’s exactly what I’m hearing there is yeah you were doing both of those things and that’s very different than a mantra.
I love, I often use that phrase. Like we can’t mantra our way out of our nervous system responses, because as much as we’d love to say, I can do this, I can do this. I can do this. If the body’s telling us a different story, now we’re maybe pushing ourselves way outside our window into dysregulation where we’re perpetuating that cycle of Oh no, that was too unsafe.
I need to avoid it even harder in the future versus. That was a little bit unsafe, but I felt like I was anchored into myself and into my support. So it was exciting too. Which has that like sweet spot, I think of risk. Yeah. I want to go back to what you said about intercepting something with the body.
And I know for myself, and I think a lot of people listening who deal with the symptoms of trauma or the adaptations of trauma, like anxiety and depression and chronic pain and chronic fatigue and things like that. There was a point in my journey when. Being like feeling my body was very uncomfortable and I was, I had a lot of health anxiety, and anytime my body made a move, a noise or a ache, like sometimes we just get these random aches and pains and they usually last for a few minutes and then they go away, but I would get one and I would be like, Oh my gosh, this means I, something new is wrong. Or this means that I have an auto-immune disease or this means I have, at one point like I actually had symptoms of a urinary tract infection for five months without.
Being able to test like positive for a UTI. Sure. And by the time I got to the urologist, I’d been in pain for five months. I was literally convinced I had bladder cancer. I was like, I’m going in here? And he’s going to tell me the worst, because that’s the only possible explanation, like it has to be really bad and.
And it wasn’t, I didn’t have bladder cancer actually had pelvic floor dysfunction and I needed pelvic floor physical therapy. But yeah. So anyway, I just, I want people who are hearing this to like first hear that if it feels uncomfortable for you to feel your body, because especially if you’ve had a lot of health issues where feeling something often means.
This thought process of Oh my gosh, there’s a new thing happening. Something new is wrong. Like I’m going to have to fix this too or whatever. I completely validate that feeling because I’ve been there myself. But I also know that. The answer was never in living in my head and not in my body.
The answer was in learning to slowly feel my body and feel comfortable with the weird sensations and aches and pains and feelings and noises that it has some times, and not let my thoughts go off the deep end of thinking like, Oh, this is it. I have cancer. I’m done. Totally. Can you speak to that a little bit?
I can both personally and professionally, cause I struggled with health anxiety too. So I, 100% get you. And I think what I noticed, especially in this in this work is that for those who come with a more sensitive makeup, right? Whether that is If you’d call it sensitive, energetically or sensitive with, with, in terms of the sensory system, either way, there is a heightened interoceptive experience, it’s beyond. So you feel you’re right. Every little niggle, wiggle, everything that you’re like, no, I feel actually too much. And that’s what I hear from my clients. Like I don’t really want to feel anymore. I already feel too much. And. In those moments for those kinds of people. Cause I was one of those people, same thing.
Like it felt a little burn or itch in my stomach, like what’s happening. I want sex on a cancer or something. It’s scary. And then that stress response comes up and then you feel all those things ceilings and it just becomes this really vicious cycle. And so for people who struggle with interoception then either because they have a history of trauma or they’re sensitive or likely both, because being sensitive sets us up for trauma. And I think trauma makes us more sensitive. Absolutely. It’s like they crosstalk. Totally. And so in those moments we, again, that word titration becomes really important, right? Because it’s learning how to anchor to an extra susceptive sense. The ground under your feet, the back of your back on the chair, the objects in the room, like those more extra susceptive sensory experiences when we can anchor to those.
Then, like one of the teachers, I love Jane clap. She talks about dipping your toe in the water, right? Like dipping your toe into feeling your, maybe your hands and your feet. Let’s not start with the core view where all those scary sensations lip. Yeah. Let’s just feel your toes today. And then again, be back out, and then we go back up into your mind or you go back out into the external environment.
And so it’s that careful process of. Of knowing your limits and knowing here’s how I stay anchored to the room around me so that I don’t go into my body and then just drowned and get stuck there. And it’s this feeling of, I don’t know how to get out once I’m in there. And so that’s usually how I work with people who, and if I’m being honest, most of the people who come to me are in that space of my body feels.
Terrifying. It feels so overwhelming. I don’t know that I want to feel that. And that’s when I’m like, yeah, no, that’s right. That’s why you have vacated and dissociated up into your mind because it wasn’t a pleasant experience and this work is not about. Making it feel all pleasant, right? I’m very clear about that.
This is not about making your body this magical, wonderful, amazing place to be in all the time. Sometimes life hurts and we can increase your capacity to be with that and to let it be okay without it. Spiking your brain and your nervous system into States of fear or panic or overwhelmed. Cause that’s the scary part.
You know what I mean? I totally know what you mean. Yeah. I know what it’s like to feel a sensation in your body that is weird or uncomfortable or painful or whatever. And then for it to create a negative feedback loop with your brain, because then you start to think about it and you’re like stewing over it.
And that’s where all of your energy is focused. And then it makes the feeling like worse. And so then thinking about it more. So it’s just it’s this negative feedback loop that like, it’s so fucking hard to get out, but the only way out of it is something that I know a lot of people don’t want to hear and that’s by Making yourself get into your body and being okay and accepting whatever it is that you’re feeling in that moment.
And sure, like if there is if you’re in a lot of pain or if there was really something wrong, like you definitely should go get checked out and get some medical care if that’s what you need. But for me personally, like once I had all the medical stuff figured out, I continued to have these sensations and these experiences, and it was just like, Okay.
I have a process that I have to go through, and this is part of that process. And I can’t stew over it and let it ruin my life because that’s what it’s doing. If I’m just stuck in my head all the time, like the next year focus on anything. Yeah. Yeah. Learning to turn toward that.
That’s essentially the process of emotional tolerance work is as learning to turn toward sensation, emotion, urges instincts. It’s like we’ve been so conditioned to turn away from our bodies. And especially if we didn’t have the foundation of secure, emotionally available parents, who could walk us through that process?
If we’re sensitive, if we’re traumatized, if we’re were just a child and feeling something painful and there’s no one there to go, yes, this is okay. This is normal. Talk to me about it. Help. Let me help you verbalize this process so that you get comfortable with it and therefore increase that tolerance.
If we don’t have that. Absolutely. We’re going to go into a defense state and those defense States shut that feeling down. We either go into hyper arousal, like I’m just, I’m so scattered. I can’t deal with this or we just start to shut down because it’s so much, and those are the defense States we’ll go into, if we don’t have the safety of connection that, that co-regulate, that regulates that experience of feeling our bodies.
Cause for kids. Feeling it’s like scary. We have no words for it. It’s a very pre-verbal experience. And we rely on our caregivers to help us make sense of that process. And so that’s what I have found to be continuous with. All of my clients is that most of the time when they struggle with interoceptive Venice or interoceptive experiences, there’s also been a lack of I don’t want to say education but just co-regulation of this is okay.
I know it’s weird. I know it’s a lot. I know it’s overwhelming, but like it’s okay. You’re safe. I’m here. I’ve got you. I can contain you right now while you have this experience. Yeah. That’s really beautiful. Creating a container for people to be able to have an experience that’s really tricky and tough.
Yeah. Yeah. So let’s talk about. Those things that nourish us, the things that we didn’t get whenever we were in an out of control place when we were kids, because our parents weren’t, or our caregivers, weren’t providing those things for us, or weren’t providing those things for us consistently. Let’s talk about obviously love is one, food is one, but what are some other sources of nourishment that we construct away from?
And we blocked walk out because of unresolved trauma. Yeah. Yeah. I tend to break those down into like emotional and physical, in terms of needs and emotional kind of covers like mental and spiritual as well. We have different needs in different spaces, but I just lump it all into up.
And so really. I think a lot of us, especially within like modern Western culture, thankfully have our physical needs met. It doesn’t mean everybody obviously, but the majority. And so most of what I’m dealing with clients is like unmet emotional needs because we’re not a very emotionally literate.
You can culture. Good. We don’t even recognize that as valid. And the things that I see that we’re missing are experiences like understanding and empathy. And validation reflection and mirroring. Yeah, just those like very basic attunement, right? Those basic infancy sort of dependency needs the need for autonomy.
The need for someone to explore and then help us make sense of our internal world is essentially those emotional needs. And so those are nourishment, right? That’s nourishment to be seen and heard and valued as a human being outside of your caregivers or friends or cultural systems and Lynn, we don’t get that.
It disrupts, what’s known as the need satisfaction cycle. And this also occurs with physical needs, right? So like food and sleep and exercise and sunshine and all of those things. But the needs, satisfaction and cycle arises. When we have a need, a legitimate need, it arises to awareness, usually through a sensation, right?
That’s how our sensory system informs us. Hey, pay attention. You need something. We are ideally taught how to notice and then acknowledge that need like here’s what’s happening for me. And then ideally, we’re also able to satisfy that need, right? So it’s for example I have a need for energy in my body.
My body sends me a hunger signal in my belly. Feels like burning or emptiness that tells me I need food. And then ideally I eat a meal and I satisfy that. And then the need diminishes into the background. Right? Needs satisfaction cycle completed when we are, when we come from a traumatic background or a history of like insecure attachment where our needs aren’t being met our needs for safety specifically, aren’t being met.
There’s an interruption in that cycle, right? It’s. There’s a need. We may not be able to notice it, our name it, because we are shutting down to our bodies and the need goes unmet, or we notice it in name it, but no one can help us with that regardless. There’s been a rupture in that cycle and there’s no satisfaction.
So if we become accustomed to that becomes our norm. That feeling of not having had fulfillment or satisfaction becomes our norm. And then if that goes on long enough, having that need met and expanding in proportion to it, right? Because there is an expansion that takes place when we are full can feel.
Triggering. Yeah. It’s it seems counter-intuitive why would I push away something that I want, but using the food analogy, if you’ve been starving for a very long time and you go to take in a really big meal, your body’s going to struggle with that. It’s going to maybe feel painful. You might feel nauseous.
You might not have all the stomach acid to deal with that food or the bile. That’s how the process works. So it’s similar. When we go to meet our emotional needs, as well as when they’re all of a sudden we get it. And it disrupts the natural flow of what we’ve been used to and then, Whoa. Does that all make sense? That kind of works. Totally. Yeah, totally. I just, I love the language of like nourishment and being full and expanding and yeah. It’s, you’re totally making sense to me. Yeah. So I guess my next question would be like, So as a child, if my parents are not meeting my emotional or physical needs, there’s not a lot I can do about that.
I’m completely reliant upon my caregivers to provide for me, for almost all of my developmental years. And, but then let’s say, I, somehow I make it to 1821 years old and I’m ready to go out on my own and I move out and I. Going to college or I get a job or I have my own place or I’m in a relationship or something like that.
And it just feels like for whatever reason, I get myself into these situations over and over where it’s I can’t sustain a healthy relationship or I can’t like figure out why. It seems like I’m spending all of my money faster than I can make it. Or like now I’m suddenly gaining a lot of weight because I’m eating in a way that like, isn’t actually nourishing me.
It’s just like making my stomach feel full, or just things like that. Those are just three examples off the top of my head. So does that mean that we’ve taken, like what was developmentally happening to us? In childhood. That was definitely not our fault. And because that’s our normal, now that we have autonomy over ourselves and we’re the ones making the decisions, are we kind of self-sabotaging ourselves and we don’t even know it.
Yeah. Oh, it’s such a good question. I love that. And those examples are great too, because they’re so common, right? Yes. Yeah, so that idea of self-sabotage, which I was like, I think she’s talking about self-sabotage right? Yeah. And it’s this feeling of. I want this one thing and it can’t seem to stop compulsively getting in the way of it.
And that usually tells me there’s a nourishment barrier, which we’ll talk about in a second. But yeah, so our caregivers are, who teach us about our needs. That is the process of attunement of going, Hey, I’m noticing something in you. It seems like you need this. Let’s see if we can help you meet that need.
And then the satisfaction either occurs or doesn’t. And we keep trying, that is how we learn about our own needs, our own processes. What is going on for us? If we didn’t get that, like you said, if our dependency needs weren’t met, we have. No idea how to do that as an adult, because it was never modeled to us.
And it was also never taught to us. And usually within those types of family systems, there’s also like a generational aspect to it. So we also see that our parents don’t know how to meet their needs, or they need them in these destructive ways. Maybe like through addictions or whatever.
And that’s one of those two things. And so when we grow up and we have this autonomy that has. Likely also been hindered in some capacity. If our dependency needs weren’t met, then we’re left going. I don’t know what’s happening. I’m just being driven around by these sort of impulsive compulsive behaviors.
And they can’t figure out why. And what we need to understand there is that. Part of us doesn’t know. So let’s just have some compassion for that. If we don’t know how to meet our own needs, it seems like we should be able to cause I’ll look we’re adults now, but no one would know. So lots of compassion there also again, having what we need might feel so foreign to us because our map, our framework for fulfillment, whether it’s.
Emotional or spiritual or physical fulfillment tells us that there’s something dangerous about having this thing. That’s where nourishment barriers come in and was really interesting. So nourishment barriers are these sort of invisible barriers, right? That tell us if I get this thing that I need or want something about it is unsafe.
So I have to keep it out here. And again, feels a little counterintuitive, but when you really start to peel back the layers and you can ask yourself questions, what about this feels unsafe? Or what am I worried about happening? If I take this in, if I do this thing, if I. Leave this relationship.
If I start eating more healthfully, if I figure out how to stay in this job, usually there’s a part of us who feels really worried that if we get this thing, X will happen. So I’m just gonna knock. I’m just going to push that away and keep it out there. I’d rather deal with this feeling of hunger and unfulfillment that is painful, but familiar.
Then the sort of Uncertainty of getting that thing and either losing it, having it ripped away, having it come at a cost having it being authentic. I There’s all kinds of reasons that we’re fearful but those nourishment barriers are what usually keep us in that cycle of. Moving forward and then getting pulled right back in, moving forward, and then getting pulled right back in where we’re like why can’t I break through?
Yeah, that sounds a disorganized attachment. Yeah. A A little bit. It’s that come here, go away. Yeah. Yeah. You could totally liken it to that experience of I want you, but not actually. Yeah. Yeah. And and this applies to like, we’re not just talking about like food, but I can see how this applies in really big ways to like money or like financial.
Success. Absolutely. Because if you, it’s one thing to be like, I’m going to make money. It’s a whole different thing to be able to receive the money that you potentially could make. Because sometimes, I certainly have found myself in this situation, especially whenever I was in my young twenties of spending my money before.
I realized I’d spent it and it was all gone. And then I overdrew my checking account. No, totally. It was like, and it was like, what am I doing? I’m having a paycheck. It’s coming in. I know I’m having a paycheck, but. Why do I keep spinning more than I know that I’m making, like, why am I doing this?
And I wish I could say I figured it out in my twenties, but I didn’t, it took me awhile to, you to, but it was, but I have a lot of trauma around, around finances. Like I grew up in a home where I knew we didn’t have enough money, and and I talked about this with Serena in episode 25 where it’s like, when you grow up and.
It’s like odd, even though my physical needs were always met. Like I always had food, I always had shoes and clothes and but I knew that there wasn’t enough money. And so I felt guilty for asking for extra things. I felt guilty, like receiving Christmas presents or birthday gifts. Like I felt guilty a lot.
And there was always this fear that there’s not enough we’re going to run out. And then I’m like an adult. And, trying to adult, and then I’m wanting to put money in the bank and save, and I have children and I want to have an emergency fund. And it’s for whatever reason, I can’t fucking get the money in the bank because I spend it before I get it there.
And I’m only just now realizing now looking back. Oh, that’s okay. What that was like, that was that not like it was that push pull, I would get the money, but then I couldn’t hold on to it. So I would push it away. And the way that I pushed it away was by spending it, sometimes yeah. Unwisely.
Yeah, totally. Totally. I, it shows up a lot with finances because it’s such a survival resource, right? Yeah. I find food and money to be such a. A good way into the psyche, right? Because they are so rooted in survival. There’s those like very foundational aspects of, I need food and I have to have money to survive in this world.
And if those two things, if we struggle in those two areas, the likelihood is that we’ve got trauma around survival. There’s some stuff to work out there, but yeah. So it’s like you see that, right? I want it. I have this sense of scarcity that makes me want to pull in more. And because of that same scarcity, I feel guilty receiving it.
Let me push that away because if I take it in, what’s going to happen, am I going to take from someone else? Am I going to be bad? Am I going to run out? Is there, all kinds of fears come up. And so then it’s just kidding. I don’t feel safe enough to have that. And then we beat ourselves up. That’s the really painful part that I see as the way that.
A lack of nourishment affects our identity. Our self-concept right. Especially early on those beliefs get rooted in that because I don’t have my needs met children. Don’t have the capacity to see that as an environmental failure. I just live in a place where my parents don’t have enough money because of, these cultural conditions or whatever.
No. I’m going to internalize that and go, I don’t have my needs met. There must be something wrong with me because a, I see other people with their needs met. And B that’s just the way I view the world as a child, I’m inherently introspective that way. And so there’s a internalizing where it affects our identity.
And then when we start to see ourselves as fundamentally flawed and broken and undeserving and unworthy, guess what? Those reinforce those barriers. And so it just becomes this tragic cycle. We’re not only do we not have what we need, but we beat ourselves to hell for it. And then feel like we will never ever know a different reality than the one that we’re currently living.
Yeah. Okay. So as you’re saying all of that, the thing that’s coming up for me is.
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I completely believe in quantum physics, quantum entanglement, like putting the energy out that you want to receive back the law of attraction. Like what we’re putting out there is what we’re going to get back because attracts and all of that.
And a lot of people are very skeptical of that opinion or that belief system, because it sounds a lot like toxic positivity sounds a lot like. I have to be happy all the time or I’m not happy at all. And I think it makes people feel really uneasy because it’s such a foreign concept to them. And I think the way that you just described it is actually so perfect because it’s.
It’s more than just a limiting belief. I’m using air quotes there. It’s just a limiting belief. It’s okay, it’s more than just, Oh, I’m just not worthy. It’s more than that. It like goes way, way back to a time when that belief was like, Started for you as a child for what? For however reason.
And then it continues because our parents tend, I’m a parent myself. I tend to repeat the same behaviors and patterns with me. Sure. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I have no reason to believe that like my parents and your parents and everyone’s parents listening, like they were probably just repeating the same things over and over.
Oh yeah. Which drilled it into us even more. And then we become adults and we start repeating what we learned, because that’s the only example we have to follow. And then we find ourselves in that same pattern. And it really isn’t, it’s not as simple as, Oh, just change the way you think about it.
Just change your beliefs. Like it’s really not that simple, but honestly that’s where it starts. Yeah. Would you say, yeah. Yeah. I think, what I, how I. Interpret, maybe the law of attraction or those types of quantum based models. Yeah. Cause I have heard both sides of that too. And understand why that would be invalidating to some people, or maybe even suppressive. But I think when that happens, it’s because we’re taking our mindset as a personal failure. And it’s not. And when we can start to look at the mindset, if you want to call it that, and the beliefs that we contain and carry, not as a personal failure, but as a indicator of our lived experience, then it becomes easier to have compassion for them.
And when we have compassion for them, that in and of itself is a loving energy, right? If we want to talk about vibration, that’s what lifts that. And so it’s what I find is that. Not pushing away our painful experiences, but actually turning toward them and inviting them in and holding them.
Paradoxically is what lifts us into a different space, into a different vibration, to a different energy of love and compassion and acceptance. And then we are able to feel safe enough letting in those experiences that we’re trying to attract if that’s what you want to call it. And yeah, we’re basically shifting a negative feedback loop into a positive one, but not through force, not through effort and not through.
Through personal shame, but rather they’re going, yeah. I carry these beliefs in me. I feel unworthy. I feel undeserving. It’s really hard. And then validating that and going, can I bet you do? Of course you do. You had some serious scarcity when you were younger. Of course you do. And that experience alone of being held and witnessed and seen it opens the heart.
It opens that heart center and then all of a sudden we go, okay maybe I am. Okay. Maybe I could take in a little bit more. Maybe I could be open to this. Which is different than coming out our beliefs with a sledgehammer and trying to bust through those walls where the nervous system is going.
Don’t you dare I’ll get power. The bigger I’m going to have send in more protectors. If you’re trying to, break through right now, I’ll show you I’ll show you we’ve been further down than you were. It’s just our system trying to keep us safe. So we’ve got to honor that. And that’s when we can start pulling in those things that we really want, like financial health or relational health, or a healthier relationship with food or kind of those pain points that tend to affect us all.
Yeah. So what is your make sure I’m wording this question correctly. If I butcher it, I apologize in advance. We find our way through it. Okay, good. What is your experience or thoughts on a victim mentality? Oh yeah. No, that’s a good question. It’s a good question. So yeah, so let me move slowly through this one.
Cause it’s a tender one and I probably tend to run. More gentle than is popular on the internet right now. Cause there’s a lot of struggle and shaming around this person’s just being a victim. If they would just get up and do the thing or I can’t hold space for their constant complaining and constant.
What I see in those moments is someone who is chronically hungry. Like the most unmet person and somewhere along the way they likely learned. The only space that I am met in is when I am in a place of submission when I’m in a place of being down, when I’m in a place of having a need. That’s essentially what that victim energy is. It’s. It’s I can’t get up. There’s something wrong with me. I have to submit to the universe or to whoever and stayed down because getting up and exerting my internal fight energy. Not in a negative sense, but like my fight energy, my arousal energy, the thing that mobilizes me, something about that feels unsafe to me.
So if I’m stuck in a victim position likely. That person does not feel safe, asserting themselves and mobilizing. And so I come at it from a different perspective than maybe some of what is popular right now does. And so in those moments, it’s how can I meet you? How can I meet you here? And what I find is that when we meet someone in their victim mentality, usually they get up.
They all of a sudden. Feel full enough in some capacity because they were seeing her witnessed validated to go, okay, maybe I don’t want to stay here. And then there’s a chance to explore. What about getting up feels unsafe, like what’s going to happen if you take some of your power back, right?
Usually people in victim stamps feel really uncomfortable with their own power and their own sense of sovereignty for a good reason. Or they’re really worried about loss. So that’s my take on it. Whenever there’s a quote unquote pathological behavior, whether it’s victim or narcissism or, any of the sort of labels that we give people, I’m always asking the question what about this feels safe for you?
What about this feels unsafe for you and feel safe for you and what would you need in order to move out of this place that I think doesn’t feel very good for you. Does that resonate or land in any way with you? It resonates probably more than any other explanation I’ve ever heard about.
Cool. So yeah, no, I really think that was a beautiful way of putting it and I love the gentleness and the softness that you inject into that. And the worst thing we can do to anybody is. Sync with that. We’re going to conquer them over the head and like somehow wake them up and that’s going to work.
Yeah. And maybe I feel a special affinity for these people because I’ve been that I was that person I had and I had the people in my life who were going, knock it off, just knock it off, get out of your anxious head and knock it off and do something. And I was like, I could, I would. And trust me, I don’t like feeling this way either.
I don’t know what’s wrong with me. And so when we pile shame, On top of that already overwhelmed system. It just doesn’t work as much as we’d love it to. Yeah, I just find that it doesn’t. Yeah. I come from my background is in health and nutrition. And before I started the podcast, I had a pretty successful health and wellness blog.
That’s actually still going, it’s called all the nourishing things. If anyone is interested in checking it out. But so in that space, in the space of people who, I’m just going to be honest, this isn’t a. A job at the industry, but in that space of health and wellness, there is a lot of labeling and identity with different diets.
If you can label yourself as vegan or keto or paleo or something like that, there’s a lot of identity there. And a lot of people in that space are people who have been chronically ill for a very long time. They often have mysterious symptoms and nobody can tell them. From a medical standpoint, what’s wrong with them because their labs are fine or, they’ve tried various medications and they haven’t worked or whatever.
And so because the conventional medicine medical system has failed them, which I completely validate that because it has failed them. They are now like looking outside of that and trying to blaze their own trail by, finding Facebook support groups or hashtags on Instagram or other accounts.
Of people who are dealing with the same thing they’re dealing with. And they’re looking for answers that way, which I completely validate that. I think that all of us should take our healthcare into our own hands and that we should be responsible for our own healthcare. But with that though, I see a lot of identity with various chronic health conditions.
And that’s actually one of the reasons why I. Felt like I had to get out of that space was because it’s it doesn’t matter how many healthy recipes I post. It doesn’t matter sometimes how many health coaching sessions I do with someone. If someone is hell bent on identifying as, and I’m just pulling a condition out of thin air, I’m not into, I’m not like sure.
I go to anybody. I’m not scapegoating anybody. I literally do have a human in mind. Whenever I’m saying this, it’s just a really common one. Like a fibromyalgia warrior, or another one that I’ve seen a lot of is like an endometriosis warrior. So auto immune conditions, which are devastating, devastating.
It’s hard. I get it. Okay. So as someone who has autoimmune issues, if we’re talking about that victim mentality question, how does someone like. I know how I would answer this question, but I want to hear your answer. How does someone like, no. Okay. This is a thing that I’m dealing with, but it doesn’t have to define every part of me.
Yeah, no I hear you on that because I came from that background too, before I got here. I was doing, I was an MTP, so I did nutritional therapy and worked with that population. Yeah. I’m with ya. Okay. I know. Lots of MTPs. Yeah. It’s actually what led me to this work because I was seeing the same thing over and over again.
Yeah. This huh, these chronic conditions should write it in air quotes should be getting better based on what we’re doing, but are not responding to any treatment protocols. So what is going on here? What is happening within this human that their body is stuck in this space, body and mind. And to some extent, I identify with that because for a while my anxiety became a definer.
And then on top of that, having. Risen up and like beating the beast. The survivor part of me then became the identifier as well. And so looking at it both personally and professionally, again, it’s this this recognition that for a lot of us identity is a safe place to be. It’s a safe place because it means belonging and it means connection. And it means understanding. And when we can claim a label and we can claim an identity and we can claim an illness and we can claim these identifiers, these qualifiers, there is a construction that takes place, a construction of identity, a construction of community.
And to step out of that would mean uncertainty would mean. Who am I without this illness? Who am I without this attention that I get from it? Who am I without the environment that I have set up around it. And that is not blame. It’s not shame. Those are just big questions we have to start asking.
And sometimes the answer of, I don’t know, is scarier than maintaining the label and the identity, even if it doesn’t feel good, right? That’s the interesting part about. About needs and fulfillment is even when we’re in places that don’t feel great. They’re familiar and familiarity for a traumatized nervous system, especially is incredibly settling.
So to step out of that and expand beyond that means that we have to risk some uncertainty some not knowing maybe loss of community, maybe having to transition and change things in our life. And that is sometimes too destabilizing. To look at that’s what I find is that there is a safety in being ill and that sounds really paradoxical, but sometimes there is right.
I’m sure you have seen that yeah. Yeah. I think it’s interesting, back to what you were saying about Yeah, you said at one point when your inner fight rises up, and I think a lot of people, we hear like trauma response, fight flight, freeze font, and we hear those things and we associate that with, Oh, those things are bad, but Your fight response actually serves a really amazing purpose.
That’s why it’s not bad. Like this, the same response that you would use to defend your child. If somebody was trying to hurt them is the same. Energy that you have to use, like when you’re diagnosed with an illness that you have to figure out a way to get over, like it’s the same fight response. And like I wanted, I want to just defend the fight for a minute.
Thank you. Yes. Yes, absolutely. I’m so with you on that let’s de pathologize defense. Cause it’s not, we need these instincts. They are a part of who we are. And so with you there, our job is just to learn discernment. Is this something that I need to bring all my fight energy to? Or can I just mobilize in an interesting way and go out and take what I need right now.
And I especially see this with women because we are so socially conditioned to be nice. Whether we recognize it or not that what it does is it impedes our discernment. It pushes down those fight flight responses that are sometimes necessary. You’re in a bad relationship. You want a healthy flight response.
Get the hell out of there, right? If you are needing to make money and go out into the world and takes us in it’s for your family and yourself, you need a healthy fight response. And so it’s not about pathologizing these things and going, Oh, we need to stay in this regulated, calm place all the time.
It’s more like, how can I utilize these parts of me consciously? And when they’re up. How can I discern whether I’m meeting it with the appropriate level, right? The appropriate level of energy and arousal for what is happening. Yeah. I’m so with you on that, how cool would you say then? Would you say then, we mentioned the internet earlier and the things that people are doing on the internet.
Yes. I’ve actually talked about this with several guests before, and I’ve just. Started calling it like the collective internet dysregulation. I liked that. Yeah. Everybody on the fucking internet is dysregulated love that I’ve heard, most of the time, but sure. To use your. To use what you just said about like how much energy can I give into this?
How much fight do I need to give this? How much flight do I need to give this is if we’re just talking about the internet. I think that’s where those blinds have gotten really blurred and confusing because it looks or it seems to me like people are. Using the same amount of fight energy.
On the internet and the conversations that they’re having with complete strangers as they would use for a really amazing cause in their real life or for to get out of a bad relationship or to make more money or like something like that. It just, it feels like there’s almost this disproportionate nervous system response happening on the internet that I see as it really is keeping the internet from being.
And nourishing space, I, yeah, I totally get what you’re saying. I think I, and I just want to clarify, I think what I hear you saying is because the internet is so boundary-less right. It’s what’s the word I’m looking for? It’s I can’t find it, but basically it’s boundary-less right. And there is just like blurred lines, yeah.
Do I know you do I not. I think I do, because I see all this information about you. And then also my nervous system can’t tell, but you’re not actually a friend of mine. Like I don’t, I shouldn’t be having this conversation with you. And so there’s, these blurred lines is blurred boundaries. And what I hear you saying is because of that, it feels like a constant threat.
There’s there’s this constant being in relationship with all these people that we’re not actually in relationship with, but that feel like we are. And so then yeah, we get to this place of, I’m going to direct all my energy here and there’s this like neurotransmitter feedback goods to happening constantly a because of our own stress, hormones, and B because of the dopamine from just the internet and the stimulation.
And so it becomes a very. Easy place for us to go put a bunch of life-force into and not even recognizing we’re not putting life force into actual relationships right now. We’re not putting life force into actual life experiences. Right now we’re putting life force into a void that doesn’t even technically exist in the physical world.
Wow. You know what I hear you saying? I think you said it better than I said it, actually. That was really great. I’m with you on that. I it’s true. And I’m wondering if you feel this way too, but. It makes it harder to mobilize an areas of your other life that, that you could be putting that energy into.
And then we feel drained at the end of the day and wonder why can’t I do anything? Will you just put a bunch of fight energy into arguing on the internet with someone or standing up for something you said? Or, it just, that’s a lot of that’s a lot of life force that it takes. Yeah. I actually have had that exact experience early on.
In this podcast experience I, like people would come and show up in my comments or whatever, and they would have very opinionated things to say and coming from the food blogger world, which is where I was before. To this space was like going to a different planet because over in the food blogger world, like the biggest argument that you’re going to have is like whether or not somebody should be vegan and if that’s healthy or not.
And I’ve just learned to be like, Hey, I’m not going to be a vegan, but if that’s what you need to do to nourish yourself, then you have my full support, but make an informed choice, but. In this space of like healing and mental health. And especially because there’s so much woven into that too.
Like all of this space of like healing, mental health, trauma, recovery, spiritual development, like it, it crosses over into like anti-racism and it crosses over into. Gender and and respecting people’s pronouns. And it crosses over into the disabled community. And there’s it’s not you’re either vegan or you’re not vegan.
It’s there’s so much crossover and all these different spaces and it can get very messy. And very early on in being in this space, I would have people show up and they would be very demanding and the comments, they would demand an explanation of me. They would demand that I defend my point that I give them that I write a thesis with cited references and yeah.
All of these different things. And at first, because I was used to the food blogger world, like over in food blogger land, I just respond to everybody. I just tell everybody like, yeah, I used almond flour or no, I’m not a vegan, or whatever. But over here in this space, it was like, there’s no fucking way I can respond to everybody because anything that I say, Hey, I just have this teeny tiny little space to put it in.
And what you need is like a big, long, explanation, or we need to turn off the fucking phones and we need to like, have it face to face conversation, because as I’ve said, I actually have. I said this to a person who DMD me one time. They were feeling very defensive about something that I had posted on Instagram, and I’m thankful that they DMD me instead of commenting publicly.
And I told them that I was like, thank you so much for reaching out privately. And then I also said, I just want to state from the very beginning that like, I have no interest in having an argument or debate with you. I’m not interested in defending myself. Like I’m not going to come at this with defensiveness, but I need you to know that going into this.
And they were like really put off by that. They were like, really concerns me that you feel like you have to say that. Okay. Interesting. I know. And so I typed back, I was from a place of, nervous system awareness. And I was like the reason why I feel like I have to say this is because we don’t have the ability to have non-verbal communication during this conversation.
You can’t. You see my facial expression, you can’t hear the tone of my voice or my inflection. Like you, aren’t seeing my body language. And because like 70% of how we read each other as humans is missing from this conversation, the only way I know how to tell you that I’m not defending myself is by telling you that I’m not defending myself.
And then they were like, I love that. Oh, okay. Here’s what I’m mad about, and it ended up not being great exchange. Like they got pissed and I wasn’t defending myself. And I think sometimes people want us to defend ourselves cause they want that dopamine rush of, the argument or whatever.
But, gosh, I don’t even remember where I was going with this now. I think all of that is just to say, Oh, At the end of the day, though, at the very beginning of my time with I am Lindsay locket on the internet and being in this space of like spiritual and personal development mixed with all of these social justice issues.
There were a few days where people were very demanding of an explanation, very condescending or defensive or whatever towards me. And I did feel like I owed them an explanation or whatever, and you’re right. I would literally have nothing to show for myself that for that day, like I would have gotten no work done.
I would have not, I would have not had a conversation with my children. I would have not gone outside. I literally sat with my phone, like all day, things regulated. Oh my God. Yeah. Like my neck muscles would be more and like my thumbs worn out and, I have a headache and I’ve been in bad posture all day and just all of this stuff and my husband would come home and I’d try to put my phone down for a little while and I would just be like, I can’t cook anything for dinner.
I’m so tired. I can’t do anything. I just need to go to bed and watch Netflix and not do anything. And I literally had nothing to show for the day, except I was honestly voluntarily because being on the internet as a voluntary thing, it was voluntarily putting myself in this very unhealthy, very stressful, very disregulating place and not having boundaries with myself about when to get off, when to put it down when to.
Get away from it and then not having boundaries with other people. And I’ve since thankfully I’ve sensed learned. Like I actually don’t owe everyone an explanation. I actually am allowed to turn off my comments if I need to. I actually am allowed to tell people that it’s okay to disagree with me.
Like we don’t all have to agree and that’s fine. And that has helped me to use the internet with much more regulation. Yeah, and I wasn’t in those days, but definitely that’s the thing I was consuming all day. And I was completely unnerved at the end of it. We’ll end. It is those boundaries that, that mediate fight and flight responses, like boundaries are the mediator. And so when we enter into situations that require that kind of energy. We don’t have good boundaries. We’re just going to get drained. We’re going to get drained. We’re going to get flattened out where our pieces of ourselves are going to be over here and over here to over here.
And it’s not going to feel nourishing and there is. Because it’s an entire space of entitlement, right? Like our relationship to the internet has become, like you said, very entitled. You owe me this. If you’re going to be putting content out, or if you’re going to be a teacher, you owe me an explanation.
And if we don’t have healthy boundaries around that, woo. Oh my goodness. And. Because of our relationship to conflict. I think the internet is a place that is rife with conflict, especially at this moment in time. And when I look at that as a practitioner and more as a person these days too, I’m going okay.
There’s needs here. There’s needs for safety that aren’t being met here. That’s what brings us into conflict. There’s a need and our ways of satisfying that need are different. And we are in conflict over that. And so how can we connect over the needs and the emotions underneath the stories that we’re telling and the ways of approaching it?
Even now, and I won’t venture too far into this, but even now in the political climate, if we’re talking about partisanship, there’s two sides who have the same needs, who go about meeting them in totally different ways, the needs to feel safe, the needs to feel autonomous, that needs to feel taken care of the needs to feel right.
And they just have totally different ways of poaching map. So when we come to conversations like that, Can we start to see the needs underneath the story. Cause if we’re doing this, which is what most people do on the internet, which is like lock horns, we’re not going to get anywhere. And then we’re just stroking that dopamine adrenaline all day long.
For the only reason that we’re addicted to our own stress hormones, not because we’re really trying to get anywhere, yeah. Yeah. I definitely, if I hadn’t been there myself, I don’t think that I would know what you’re talking about, but I absolutely know what it’s like to be in that constant state of stress, completely dysregulated and completely fucking addicted to it.
Yeah bright it’s like every drama bond ever existed. We’re all trauma bonded to the internet I’ve been there. So I know what it’s like, but yeah, it’s it’s a lot and it’s a big world these days. We’ve got to really be careful about noticing how has this affected my body right now?
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That is off of social media, as well as some other perks and discounts that are only available to circle members. Currently membership is $15 a month. It’s a very, very small financial investment that will give you really big results in your personal development, spiritual development. Growth and trauma healing. So I want to invite you all to join a Cyanna and me for a bonus episode in the trauma healers circle. And again, everything that you need to know about this episode is in the show notes, show notes are firstname.lastname@example.org. Forward slash podcast
📍 Did you enjoy the show? Awesome. Here’s what you can do next first. Make sure you’re subscribed second. I really appreciate it. If you took a few moments to rate the podcast, finally, you can partner with me to keep putting this healing information into the world for just $5 per month. You will help keep the show ad free and freely available. If you want to go deeper and connect with me and other trauma healers in community, I invite you to join the trauma healer circle. This community is where the magic happens. You get access to bonus podcast.
Episodes monthly zoom calls. And most importantly, you’ll find your people go to Lindsey locket.com forward slash circle to join.