Episode 77: Client Journey — Increasing Self-Trust & Decreasing Control with Chris Willburn

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This Episode’s Guest

Chris is a transformation coach who helps people transform their mental and emotional health to take back control of their bodies so they can recover from chronic dieting. He’s also a single dad to the world’s coolest kid and currently the #1 ranked MarioKart player in the world.


Show Notes

In this special Client Journey episode, I’m interviewing my coaching client Chris Willburn. In this interview, Chris shares some of the insights, breakthroughs, and transformations he experienced while working with me. He was able to embody more of his Authentic Self with greater self-trust and self-awareness and release some of the harmful habits he’d picked up when in survival mode (like controlling and micromanaging his body).

Chris also shares how working with me helped him realize that trauma has had more of an impact on his life and health than he realized. During our first 12 weeks of working as client and coach, Chris realized he had a lot of brain inflammation that was contributing to some really uncomfortable physical symptoms. Throughout this process, Chris developed more trust in himself, felt a lot of feelings he’d been avoiding for decades, released that stored trauma energy from his body, and began to feel physically, emotionally, mentally, and spiritually better.


Hello? Hello, welcome back. I don’t know if you can tell by the sound of my voice, but I have a wee bit of a head cold. I actually started getting sick on Monday on Tuesday. I took a COVID test. It was. But I was so congested. I couldn’t breathe. I never take over the counter decongestants. And when I say never, I mean, like for 20 plus years, I have not taken an over the counter decongestant and I needed them for survival this week.

Um, my sleep sucked. My mouth was dry all the time from breathing out of my mouth. And yeah, it just was not a fun week. I literally canceled everything except for two clients. And it’s actually Saturday evening. And I’m just now getting the podcast out for this week. So it’s actually kind of a miracle kind of an accomplishment that I’m even getting this podcast out this week.

But I did feel better today and I didn’t have anything else to do. So editing and producing a podcast, wasn’t the worst thing in the world, especially because I’m so grateful for this episode specifically, because this is an interview that I did back in December with a client of mine. His name is Chris Wilburn.

He is a coach himself. So if you are interested in working with a coach who helps people with body image and weight loss in a way where he’s helping you rewire your brain and not work out and count calories and. Measure yourself and use all these kinds of tracking apps, but literally to rewire your brain, then you might like to work with Chris.

Um, I will put his website and his Instagram in the show notes in case you want to hop on over and check him out. He has also recently started his very own podcast called I’m working on it. And I believe that you can stream that anywhere podcasts are streamed. So definitely go check those out. That’ll be linked in the show notes.

I’m not going to spend a ton of time on this intro because I feel like my voice sounds like I’m talking into a muffled wet toilet paper roll. I don’t know. It’s a very weird visual image. But that’s what it feels like. So this is going to be a short intro. Um, but I did this interview with Chris because I do, I do an exit interview with every single one of my clients at the end of a 12 week program.

And we did this exit interview. And he had already decided that he wanted to work with me for another 12 weeks. So this recording happened in December and we are now wrapping up our second 12 week round of coaching. And Chris wants to keep going. So I’m excited that I have the opportunity to work with Chris for nine, potentially 12 months or longer.

And it’s been incredible for me as a coach. To have clients who want to keep going with me, long-term not because I want to create codependency where the client needs me or feels like they need me in order to be okay. I mean, the goal is absolutely that you don’t have a codependent relationship with me and that you can function independently and make it through triggers and regulate your own nervous system and live in awareness and consciousness and all of that.

Like, absolutely. That is the. But there’s just something magical about working with a client long-term and I feel like I get a front row seat to massive transformations because sure. We can heal things in 12 weeks. We can transform in 12 weeks. But when you multiply that by four and you work with somebody for a whole year, the.

Just the results and the view and the perspective that you have on their transformation is so special and so incredible. And I’m feeling like I’m getting to live that with Chris and he’s just been a dream client of mine. And, um, This is his exit interview that he and I did when he finished his first 12 week coaching program with me.

Um, and right before we dive into this, this interview, the reason why I’m even posting this interview now is because, well, one, it’s an amazing exit interview. And if you want to know what kind of transformations and breakthroughs people are having, when they’re working with me as a trauma, healing and nervous system coach, then this type of a conversation.

Okay. A window into that. Also I am accepting applications for summer 20, 22 coaching clients. So if you’ve thought about working with me in the past, or if you’re curious what it would be like to work with me, then I’m sharing this interview as a podcast, because I want to give you a window into that. So I’ll share details about working with me and how to apply in this.

And at the end of this episode, but for now, I want to get out of your hair and let you listen to this really incredible exit interview that ended up being, not an exit interview because we’re still working together with my client, Chris Wilburn. I hope you enjoy.

Hey, Chris, welcome to your exit interview. It sounds like you’re like getting promoted in your job or something.

I’ll have to think about. I’ll have to ask the management. There’s no more pages. More responsibility, right? Yeah basically. That’s how it is. Okay. So if you think back to when we began our work together, what were your challenges? There’s a lot of challenges. I think probably the main couple were, I was way more stressed out than I realized specifically in my body.

I guess now I understand, I didn’t feel safe in my own body, which I did actually have some awareness though, but I just didn’t really know what exactly to do about that. And I had a list of kind of mysterious symptoms of stuff. Like I’m sure a lot of people can relate to.

That seemed like they were coming from outside. And some of them were, but a lot of them was just coming from my own inside. And I didn’t realize how much of my own symptoms or my own stuff that was going on that I was causing. And I think looking back too, I realize now I wasn’t aware of some of the little like automatic habits that I was doing.

To cope with some of the stuff that was going on in my life. Like the micromanaging, like the really, it was a difficult period of my life and I was trying to control like everything and it didn’t feel to me like that’s what I was doing, because it just felt like a like a natural thing.

Like this will be helpful. I will do this. And that was causing me more issues and more strife and more stress and stuff than I ever could have realized probably on my own and even like my own therapist. And didn’t notice that. So those are, those are a couple. Yeah. Amazing. So what made you decide to want to work with me?

Of all the coaches on the internet, why. Just trying to think of something funny to say what I could I’ve consumed like a lot of different books and content and taking courses. And obviously, like I do a form of coaching as well. I think number one, I felt like you had some good knowledge that I didn’t have you, you were holding a piece of the puzzle that I needed and there honestly wasn’t a whole lot of logical decision-making that went into it.

It just felt like I’ve told you no offense, but I’ve never listened to a single one of your podcasts. And it’s not because I wouldn’t love to it’s just because I don’t want to overload myself with your thoughts and stories and stuff like that. But I think it just like a lot of people I felt like you understood, and I felt like you had been through some similar stuff, at least as I’ve been through like the pelvic for obviously that was huge.

But even if it wasn’t for that, I’d probably would have still done it. It just I think it’s important to, and it’s always important to me. I want to work with somebody who’s a real person, not somebody who portrays like. Perfection or, they did have some struggles in the past, but now their life is perfect and they never have struggles and stuff like that.

I think you see a lot of that. And that just doesn’t, that’s not real life. And that’s that’s not something that I would feel comfortable with. I think it was mostly just, I felt like you would understand. And I also I chose specifically, I felt like it would be helpful for me to work with a woman because it’s obviously like a different vantage point.

It’s a different outlook on life, all that stuff. And you’re more wound than me. And I think that’s for me, that’s that was important because I’m so good at being logical. I’m so good at that portion, but I am a little bit I’m a lot. I think compared to most people, but your extra will which is one of the things I love about you because you stretch my you push my comfort zone in that.

And it helps me to try new things, but also to know okay, like that’s when I will. And that’s that’s something that I definitely did on purpose. I’ve worked with a lot of people before who I’ve done a lot of coaching and a lot of therapy. I’ve worked with a lot of people who thought more like I did and were more on the logical side.

And I think it’s good. At least for me, I think probably for a lot of people to open up your mind to what. Else might be out there because we live in this world where we’re all this confirmation bias where it’s like, what we already think is very easy to find, but it’s not so easy to be like, I need help, but let me do it with somebody who’s going to I’m looking at it like this.

They can look at there, there is like this where it can not intersect. And so I think, all of those and then

Yeah. I can it’s really important for me to know who I’m working with and not feel like it’s a very clinical thing. And I don’t know them at all. That’s one of the reasons I think why therapy, I’ve never I’ve had a lot of success and a lot of help with coaching, but therapy just doesn’t work for me.

Cause I feel like I have a hard time connecting with the person as a human being, because they’re just, sitting behind a clipboard. And I don’t know who this person is like. And I felt like I, I had an idea from conversations with you that we had and just like the stuff that you put out that would not, like you talk about yourself and you can relate to that.

Even if it’s not something that I’ve been through. I know. What kind of person you are and at least a little bit. And they can just the human aspect of it I think is really important for connection and trust. And to know that this person isn’t judging me because obviously as like I fired my therapist because I felt super judged.

And I was thinking about this the other day. I’ve never have once felt judged by you even, for any of the weird shit that I do or whatever,

but yeah, and I think that’s so important. As for both the coach or the, whatever you want to call it, and then the client, like you, you have to be nonjudgmental. Like you have to see them as a human being. And I just got that feeling like you wouldn’t judge me because I know I shouldn’t be judged.

And it doesn’t necessarily, always bother me when people do, but in that one-on-one relationship, you can’t have that because then trust is broken. And it was really like the real human being aspect of it. And the fact that I really did feel like you cared. And I feel like there are, the coaching and the mentor and all that stuff is really big on Instagram.

And I think a lot of people do care, but you can’t tell because they don’t act like it. And there are some people who don’t care, but I did. I just felt like you were the kind of person like me, like you care about people and want the best for them. And that’s really important for me to like connect on that level with somebody that I’m working with.

So those are all the reasons. Thank you for sharing that makes me really, that makes me feel really happy and really validated. What have been your biggest insights or surprises in this last 12 weeks?

Oh man. Wow. My biggest insights or surprises. I think what was interesting for me is to I think I was surprised at how much I was actually struggling with some certain things. Like I was also surprised at how some of the things that most people would consider healthy in my life, or most people would consider like good for me.

I was using those as a crutch

and I aren’t and I think, and this is, I think really important too. And I think that I wish a lot of people could realize this more. I don’t think I realized how much trauma I actually had. Like I knew that I’ve had a decent amount, but I think there was a lot of things that were really traumatic to me that I just, I didn’t put together that still had an impact on me.

And I think that’s really important because the word trauma gets thrown around a lot. And I think that’s a hard, it’s a hard thing for men to admit. Like it’s not hard for me to admit, but it’s just there’s some stuff that just by how we’re trained to think about things you’re not supposed to, that’s not supposed to be traumatic or, that’s not supposed to be something that affects you.

Like just keep it moving. And I don’t think I realized how much I was just keeping it moving. And I was doing a good job at it for most of the time until I wasn’t. And No, I think I’ve learned so much about like the connection with my body and as somebody who is a lifetime athlete and avid exerciser and workout, or in all kinds of physical activities, I had no idea how actually disconnected from my body.

I really was because that’s something again that as men we’re trained to do a lot of the time, like in sports or military service or a lot of the things that, men choose to go into your church, you’re trained to just shut off, shut that off to a certain extent, just use your mind to push your body or other than you should probably go a lot of instances.

And that again, there is a fine line with everything and that’s a skill to have, but that’s also a skill to know like what you’re playing with. And I realized that exercise and working out and stuff like that. For me, it was just another means to like escape, what I was actually feeling in my body and produce something else that I could feel, because I didn’t want to look at some of the uncomfortable physical sensations that come with emotions.

And I learned to what kind of surprise me is that I’m not like I’m not as bad at emotions and feelings as I thought I was what, I’m, what I, wasn’t not bad, but what I’m, what I needed to improve on was the sensations that come with those. And in my mind, those there’s a distinction of the two. Some people might not draw that correlation, but for me, that distinction was really important.

Like you can acknowledge. All the emotions in the world, but if you are not actually letting yourself feel the sensations in your body that come with it, I don’t think you’re giving yourself the full experience and the full, like healing, whatever healing of feeling it. And so that was really important.

Obviously, and I don’t know if this is something that you put in there, but like the Nemetschek like the brain inflammation thing. And just to have somebody be like, oh, like I’ve experienced this. And here’s this whole thing that kind of explains a lot. That was like, if I only would’ve gotten that, it would have been, this whole thing would have been super worth it because not only was that helpful, but it was also like, oh, I’m not crazy.

A lot of the stuff that I’ve been experiencing has been real and not caused by me. And simply even to have that validation of this is what you’ve been experiencing, because you have inflammation in your brain and it’s not like it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to look at my history and think yeah, this dude might like this dude might have some going on out there.

Concussions and trauma and all that stuff. And that was super helpful. And there’s just so much, there’s a lot that surprised me, that are just like these little day-to-day things and how I think the greatest moments of transformation happening in like these little day-to-day moments.

And we don’t realize that. And I’ve always known that and I’ve always subscribed to that and I’ve experienced it across other areas of my life, but just in, in this specific, like nervous system and trauma and stuff, especially with your nervous system and, emotions and all that stuff, that is a data that is not like I did this giant thing and I had this big breakthrough, it’s a day-to-day thing.

And there are opportunities and moments for huge change and huge growth in those areas. If you’re open to that and if you’re really present and conscious of. Of the opportunities that you can have in those moments. That’s beautifully said. Thank you. Have you resolved any issues?

Have I resolved any issues? No, not really.

Yeah, I think there’s been there’s been a lot of like issues that I resolved. There’s been some, some trauma in the past that I think I’ve been able to like work through and understand a little bit better. Cause I think it understanding that something was traumatic and something had an effect on you.

It’s obviously that’s valuable and that’s information going forward for you, but also being able to work through and see how that affects you. Super important. I think probably the biggest thing as of right now, and obviously we’re not done is just, I just feel so much better in my body.

I didn’t realize how much this last year or this 2021 has really made me not feel like I did not feel comfortable in my own body. And I feel like I have more control over things that I felt like I didn’t have control over because the pelvic floor issue, the, some of the health stuff that was happening.

For most, for over a year, it just, it was like, I was seeing all these people, I was doing all the right things and nothing was helping. And now I feel much more like I have control or I have not, not control in a bad way, but I have influence, there are things that I can do to help because that’s one of the things that I felt like before was it doesn’t matter what I do.

I, don’t something doesn’t feel right. There’s nothing more frustrating than you’re seeing all the right doctors. You’re doing all the right things. You’re trying to get enough sleep. You’re taking the right supplements. You’re doing all this stuff. And then you just nothing is working. So why would you even continue to like, do more?

And I feel like I have a better idea and I know, and I’m still learning about what is actually right for me. And what’s. Helpful and what’s not. And I think I’m starting to see how much I looked for solutions outside of myself, which is ironic because that’s something that I’ve known for a really long time is something that we, whenever we do that’s not a helpful place for us to operate from, but the society that we live in just fosters looking for that.

And I didn’t realize how much I was doing that. And just the knowledge of that. Plus combined with some better ways of operating and putting the control. I think the worry you use as a sovereignty back in myself, That’s I mean that’s empowering and it’s not a mystery. That’s one of the reasons why I just overall just feel better.

You have a better outlook on life when you feel like you have some influence over like yourself and how things go and all that stuff. There’s nothing worse than being in a situation where it seems like it doesn’t matter what you do. Like you’re a year and you’re a victim at that point. And I was a victim without even really knowing it.

Most of the last year. And that’s one of the big reasons why I knew I was like I can’t figure this out myself and I can’t read about it in a book cause that’s, I don’t, I think that’s helpful and stuff, but I’m definitely somebody like, I need to walk through things with somebody and I’m left to my own devices.

I’ll think that’s a great idea. And I should probably do that, but then I’ll be onto the next idea. And I don’t even remember what the question is anymore. So I was actually, as you were saying, all of that, and you were talking about feeling like you have influence over your life. Words like sovereignty and self-trust and choice were going through my head.

And I was actually going to ask before we started this work together, did you feel like a victim of circumstances? And if yes, then would you say you feel less like a victim of circumstances now? Yes, definitely. Yes. I felt like a victim and it wasn’t totally on warranted with what was going on with me.

Like what, I’m not really sure how else I was supposed to feel with what was going on. And I, cause I think sometimes there’s such a negative connotation with that. Like I was stuck. Like how else? I’ve done a lot of thinking and a lot of feeling about that and Hey, like that was okay.

That was okay to feel like that. What else were you supposed to feel? Yeah, but yeah, but that’s obviously not a place that you want to stay and I did feel stuck and I did, I think anytime that you’re trying really hard to find the right doctor and finding the right this and find the right, that, like you’re getting farther and farther away from yourself.

And I’ve done a lot of work over the last decade on myself on self-trust and kind of bringing back to me. But the last year just got me so far away from that. I couldn’t see it. Yeah. And I did, I lost trust in not only myself for awhile, but in a lot of the people that I tried to get help from.

And so that, that can perpetuate like, feeling like a victim, but it can also perpetuate like I was the one who chose to listen to them and some self shaming. Yeah. I wouldn’t say shame myself, but you can really get frustrated with maybe I shouldn’t have done that, or I knew it’s so easy in hindsight to look back and not have the attitude of everything is happening for a reason.

Yeah. And I definitely couldn’t see the reasons and some are, and some of the things that I’ve had to work through this year. Yeah. Self-trust is such a huge thing. And I think throughout the course of this process, I really think how I think about self-trust has changed a lot in, I was telling you yesterday, It’s very important to keep promises to yourself and, to show up for yourself.

But it’s also important for you to just know that you’re going to be okay regardless. And I think I’ve gotten a lot better at, and this is another thing, like I talk about this all the time, try and give yourself what you need, not what you want in the moment. And I think I’ve gotten so much better at understanding what my needs actually are and making choices or doing behaviors or whatever that line up with what I need, not just what I want in the moment.

And sometimes that includes breaking a promise to myself that maybe I made that morning Hey, I need to do this thing. And then you get to the end of the day and you’re just like, no, you don’t need that. What you need is rest or what you need is whatever. And yeah. That to me is like the ultimate form of self-trust is being able to trust yourself, to give yourself what you actually need.

And I think the more that we do that, that the closer that brings us back to like our most authentic, like best self, because we get so far away from that when we’re pushing through and we’re forcing ourselves to do things that, we don’t actually need, or we’re just doing a lot of stuff that we want in the moment.

And we’re very reactive. Nothing gets you farther away from your actual self than doing things in the moment, because it feels good even though, that’s not what’s best for me. Long-term and sometimes that’s a very fine line and it’s hard to figure out. And I feel like I have a really good understanding of where my line is now.

And that’s, that’s just super helpful and that’s something that like, you feel good about yourself when you make choices that are in line with what you need. Yeah. A hundred percent. If we pursue behavior that makes us feel good about ourselves, we’re usually going in the right direction, but we often pursue behavior that just makes us feel good, man.

Somebody should put that on a bumper sticker. And knowing the difference is like a true superpower. And I feel like I’m just really starting to master that. Okay. Amazing. So are there any areas during our work together that now feel complete for you? Like they feel. Finished and if yes, what are they?

And if not, what still feels incomplete because I know we’re going to work together for another three months. I, yeah. I’m maybe not the best person to ask that question to, because I don’t necessarily feel like anything is ever really complete. But I do feel like, and I’ve always known that this really difficult year of 2021 has happened for a reason.

There’s going to be a good thing in the long run. It’s obviously sometimes hard to see that forest through the trees a lot. But for me, I think this year has taught me, yeah. I I feel like going forward, everything is going to be different for me. Like I’m stepping into a new. Chapter, I guess where my experience of life can be different and I can integrate some of the things that I did in the past.

That was very helpful. And I can know that there’s going to be things that I’m used to doing a certain way that now that what’s best for me is to do this a different way. And it’s going to be a different experience of it. Some of those are going to be pretty awesome. I’m sure some of those are going to be scary and different and whatever, and it’s all fine.

It’s just, I think we’re talking yesterday about can’t remember It’s like the death of one season or whatever, something that you said we were talking about the solstice.

It genuinely just feels to me like I’m going into a new chapter. Nothing is really complete. Cause I want to make sure that this isn’t just, something I do for a couple of months and then I’m like, yeah, cool. I’ve got it. I’m very big as, and making it a habit, like making this, the new normal.

And that’s all I really want to focus like that I wanna focus on going forward is like all of these things that are working and all this stuff needs to not be. Just something that I learned that I did for a few months, this needs to be like my new normal. And that’s the way that sort of stepping into sort of the new chapter.

That’s the way that’s going to make that, a really good experience for, my life going forward. And that’s the reason why, I want to keep working with you because I, I can’t say it enough, like change, a lot of change can happen in three months, but it’s the extended, it’s the extended time when you don’t rush over things that I think real transformation, like for the positive happens.

And that’s really what I want for myself. I want that for you too. I want that for you too. What would make the holistic trauma healing coaching program better? Wouldn’t make it better? I think for me, sometimes I was overwhelmed with the sheer volume of questions and stuff in the homework. It wasn’t really a problem for me because I know where my capabilities and boundaries lie in that, but there was times where I felt like a pull to I gotta do my homework.

And obviously how I felt physically has affected that. And I was aware of that. When I was sick and when I had 2000 and all that stuff I think that’s probably, I think that’s probably it. I definitely enjoy not enjoy, but I prefer the communication over a Voxer than slack, like slack is a good option and stuff, but sometimes when I’m trying to communicate in-depth stuff and you’re trying to communicate in depth stuff and I’m driving around and I’m looking at sometimes it’s just easier for me to wasted out or I can wait until I’m in a spot where I can voice text you.

I’m not going to do that if I’m playing with my kid or whatever. Like I’ve definitely found that helpful, but yeah, I think really just sometimes the sheer volume of. Questions or a number of things for a week to look at was too much for me, just because I was really trying to hammer home with myself.

Like these little things that I knew were what I call the levers that would really move things forward. And it was all stuff that I knew I needed to look at her. I needed to work at work on eventually, like I have all of it saved. But just at that time, I think some of it was just like a little too much.

Yeah. Thanks for sharing that. And I like. What I want to acknowledge you for. And this is that, I give the homework and it comes from like me pulling from our sessions that we have together, what you shared with me on slack, what I’m intuiting from, what’s going on. And then that’s how I create the homework.

But what I love about what you just said is like that, even if I’m giving you 10 things to do for homework for two weeks, like you still acknowledged your own sovereignty and your own choice in that. And if you didn’t do something, it wasn’t like, you apologize to me for it. Like you didn’t, it wasn’t like, oh, I’m sorry I didn’t get to this or that.

And I also didn’t hound you about it, so it was like, here’s the, you could almost say that. The hallmark is like a menu. And I’m like, here’s the menu order, what you want from it, for this, with this week. And I think you did a really good job of knowing what items on the menu were going to serve you best in that time.

And, but then as you said, like there’s some things that maybe we could go back and cover again later, or cause I watched the process with you unfold over these last 12 weeks of we started in one place and we ended up going through all these detours to get to where you are today, but that’s I don’t have an agenda going into it.

Like I’m happy to let the process unfold naturally and organically, but I did really respect that about you is From the beginning, you treated the homework, like a menu and you ordered from it, what you felt was going to be best for you. What was realistic for you to get to you were also dealing with a lot of sickness.

And I think you were sick for like over half the time we were working together in one way or another, just the sheer volume of things that you were still able to heal in spite of that, to me is huge, but I didn’t want to acknowledge you for just how you trusted yourself to again know this is what I need right now.

And I can put a pin in these other things and I can come back to them if we need to. But I just, I love that you trusted yourself, even when you maybe thought you didn’t trust yourself, like there was still a part of you that deep down, you did trust yourself and you knew what you needed and you chose to do that.

And and I think it worked really well together because I wasn’t treating you like. Like a parent, like getting onto my child for not doing their homework, like I never want to treat my clients like chill trend. And, but it’s so important to me through the process is I don’t want, I don’t want to get to the end of a 12 week program with somebody.

And it’s okay, now you are an adult. And you can think for yourself and trust yourself and all of that. I want to honor you as a fully sovereign being from day one, right? Even if you don’t see it in yourself, I still want to treat you that way, because it is so important that, you have choice, you have the ability to set boundaries, even with me and I’m so glad we added boxer for you here towards the end, because I feel like when we added that boxer, I don’t know if something happened astrologically or if it was just because of Voxer or if it, because was because you finally weren’t sick anymore.

But it was like we added Voxer and all of a sudden you were like, like the momentum just really seemed to increase for you. Did that happen? It was all that I think as I started to feel better and I healed from the dental surgery and stuff like that. But then like I told you yesterday, it’s way more helpful for me to hear myself say something out loud than it is for me to see it written down because you can kind of it for me, at least it comes out more naturally and I’m not trying so.

To make okay, how do I convey this thought to her? I can just talk and that what comes out. And then sometimes you’re just, that’s why, coaching can be so powerful. It’s you hear yourself say these things out loud that you’re like, whoa, like that was really insightful.

Or you’re like, whoa, that was really fucked up. Like where did that come from? And for me to have a more, another opportunity to communicate like that, I feel like I probably got, better communicating with you. And then it’s also like the, for me, it’s easier to take in information like that when people are talking to me because I’m a natural listener.

And it just, it made everything seem less overwhelming when I am in the middle of. Like all this other real shit that I was thinking about that like last night I was like, shit, it’s been a brutal, like if you could have, and I think I told you this yesterday, I gave you, he could have been like, all right, let’s pick the worst possible conditions for you to try and do some self work

mean it can always get worse. So I’m not asking for that, but it’s been very challenging. And I think that just helped because it felt easier to me. And there were, there was a lot of times. My work. And what I know about the brain and how overwhelmed create doesn’t overwhelm is the exact opposite that you want for any kind of habit change.

I always kept that in mind. And that’s why I knew very well okay, clearly that’s too much, there’s a boundary that I’m going to create really with myself, not with you. Because I don’t want to, I have a tendency like five years ago, if I work with you out of being bombed, boom, bounced around to every cool thing that you said or suggested, and none of it would have stuck.

Yeah. And so what I really was trying to practice is this is the important thing, what adds to that, and what’s helpful with that. And what is getting in the way what’s unnecessary and what do I need to put a pin in and come back with later? Cause I always knew. Not always, but I had a pretty good idea that when I got to the end of this, that I would want to keep going in some capacity, just because that’s what that’s what I do with my clients.

It’s I start with 12 weeks if that’s what they want to do, but I prefer six months. Like I want to do that. That’s when real change. And like, when you commit to Hey, okay, I’m going to do this work for six months or, or I’m going to do this work for a year. That’s the most that’s, you’re really telling yourself something.

Yeah. And you’re making a decision okay, things have been this way and maybe it’s been okay or maybe it hasn’t, but it’s not working anymore. I need to do something different and having one foot in one foot out. That. You can do things that way, but that’s not going, that’s going to slow you down.

And I am definitely, I like to show myself that I am committed to something and I’m committed to change by, committing time to it. And when, as a single parent, like time is my most precious thing. Yeah, I there’s just the last couple of weeks really have I physically felt better.

A lot of things have clicked and I really needed that. Like I needed to see, it wouldn’t have stopped me if I didn’t see this progress the last few weeks yet. I still would’ve known like I’m on the right track. But when I was thinking about just the last week or two, I’m like, yeah, I needed that. I needed a little bit of something to know that I’m going in there.

I knew I was going in the right direction, but it made me feel so good to just be like, oh, okay. Like things are getting a little bit easier. That’s partially because I’m doing all this stuff that makes me feel good about myself. Like I’m making those decisions that I just, we were talking about. I’m doing the things that are right for me that I need.

Yeah. Yeah. I’m really proud of you. Thank you. And I’m really excited to be working with you for another three months. That’s the fun part as a coach when you work with someone for six months or a year, like I just had two clients this last year who signed up for the whole year. That’s amazing. That is so fun.

Like it’s and that’s one of the reasons too. I knew, like I don’t need to get. Because if, you’re only going to do 12 weeks, like it could be tempting to try and I need to really like, get the most out of this. And I was like, no, like I will, I’ll keep doing this. And even if it was really just on my own, like I could go back through and do some of that stuff, but I knew that this is a longer term thing for me.

So I wasn’t trying to, I didn’t feel like I needed to like, make the most out of, week three or whatever, whatever we were working on that week. I knew that I needed to focus on what I needed to focus on and just make that the, put a magnifying glass on that and make it the priority.

Yeah. Yeah. You did it and you’re actually I have another couple of clients who are going to continue and do another round and it’s so interesting. The ones that are going to continue are the ones who the last three, four weeks, weren’t like, oh my gosh. I just realized we only have three weeks left.

And they were like messaging me every day and like where they maybe weren’t messaging me very much at all before, but it was like, something was like, oh my gosh, my time with her is running out. I got to make the most of it this time, it was that sense of urgency. And we’ve all experienced that, but you and the others that are continuing, like you guys weren’t like that, it’s almost like you knew at some point I’m not done.

So I don’t have to rush around and have this sense of urgency. Like time is running out because I’m not time isn’t running out. I’m not done. I meant to ask you about that. I dunno, probably like halfway through, I was going to ask you if you had a backhand offer or like what that was just because, it’s, I knew it was going in the right direction.

And I knew, like I knew that, staying, working with the same person that. Longer term, that’s obviously going to, they’re going to have insights on you because they know you better and they’re going to be able to, you’re going to be able to hear what they’re saying to better because there’s already trust there.

And I’m just a big fan of like longer term stuff like that because I personally experienced on both sides how transforming that can be. And yeah, like when you have that urgency that you’re talking about, sometimes that can be really a helpful thing, but then also sometimes that can get in the way so I could see that.

After going through these last 12 weeks and you’ve already signed up for another 12, what would you say is the true monetary value of this program? Like a number, whatever you feel comfortable sharing? Man, I don’t know. What you charged for 12 weeks is very reasonable. Like I would like, I have paid way more and gotten way less from people like that’s for sure. Way more. There are people out there charging what is like ridiculous. And I like, like I said, what you and I talked about before I even technically started, I would’ve paid like for you to help me understand that brain inflammation thing.

If I would have just gotten that, I would have been perfectly happy and I would have paid more just for that. So I understand. Like how a lot of people might be concerned that this is a lot of money and you’re paying it to somebody up front. As somebody who has done a lot of coaching, like both received a lot of coaching and done coaching with clients, you like, it’s not even a question of is the investment like worth it to work with you?

I, at no point did I ever, was that even ever like a concern of me thinking like, oh, I really hope I get my money’s worth or whatever out of this. And I think part of that is, is also because I know you care, like it’s not just it’s not just about the money or whatever to you.

So I guess, I don’t know any other way. To answer that question other than I I definitely would’ve paid more and I have paid a lot more for way less. And I guess what I would say, if anybody is considering it, or they’re like, that’s a lot of money, like I totally get it.

And I know that you take that seriously. Like I know that you’re like me, like when someone gives you a, when someone pays or whatever, like you’re like, okay, like I need to show up for this person. Not oh, the work is done. Yeah. And the fact that you care and like you genuinely care makes it way.

Easier to pay a large sum of money to somebody knowing that they actually care. They understand that I’ve made, just made a big investment and, you’ve made big investments yourself. And I think that’s important too, but at no point was I ever concerned about not getting my money’s worth or anything like that, it was one of the easiest, like bigger investments that I’ve made.

And I would say if that’s someone’s concern that shouldn’t be a concern, like that’s it’s more than worth it. Oh, thank you so much. All right. So fill in the blank. If I hadn’t done this program, I would still be dot.dot. I think I would definitely be unconsciously doing a lot of stuff that is not sending me in the direction that I want to go. I think I would probably still be spinning a lot of my wheels looking for answers. I would probably still be pretty stressed out and not even realize it.

I definitely would not be as good with understanding and feeling my emotions, which I think. I think that’s something that we’re more men need to be taught and learn how to do. And it wasn’t something that I was horrible at to begin with. I think I was farther along than most men probably ever get to, but it still wasn’t good enough.

Like not good enough, but like I still had a long ways to go. And as somebody who was raising a daughter, like that’s so important to me, a really, four year old now going through a lot of emotions, daughter, if I can’t be okay with my emotions, like I’m not going to be okay with hers, like fully, like I think I could this whole year has just been a really like emotions thing for me.

And the last 12 weeks have really accelerated progress that I could have made on my own or maybe working with somebody else. And. That’s not something that I wanted to struggle with anymore because I have always been somebody who I acknowledged. I feel a lot of emotions. I just do. And I think more, there’s so many more men that are like that.

Then we want to admit because of, some of the, whether it’s sports or just being male growing up, or whether it’s military service or whatever it is, we’re taught to ignore that. And I think learning better how to, I wouldn’t be as good at understanding and dealing with emotions. I probably would still ha I would have more of a feeling of, I shouldn’t be feeling like you validated a lot of what I was feeling.

Maybe, I didn’t even know that I was feeling and I would still have those subconscious or those undercover feelings and it would be, but how would I ever know? If somebody didn’t point that out or somebody didn’t like, say that how would I know, like I would just go on with that affecting me in however way it did without even knowing it.

And that to me is oh, that’s scary because it’s been such a hard year for me. There is a lot of it’s really hard. It’s really easy to lose sight of certain things because you’re dealing with this and you’re dealing with this and single parent and this, and you were doing all of that in the middle of a pandemic as well.

You, it, wasn’t just the pandemic that made your life harder. That was the easy part, but yeah, you’re right. It’s been such a stress, like a collective stressful last couple of years that we all need some kind of work and there’s not enough people to do that work with, especially therapists.

There’s not enough good therapists. And I don’t think that I will ever work with another therapist again. And I’m done like apologizing for that. Like I’m sorry, therapy community, like you guys needed to get. Do better. I know. And I know there’s some people out there that are fricking amazing and I’ve worked with a couple of them, but I’ve worked with more who probably needed to do their own work or they just needed to do better.

And with what we’ve all been through as a collective, if you think that you don’t need some sort of healing in some way or another, I would definitely invite you to look at that a little bit differently. And that’s the nicest possible way I can say that because the other way would be like, you’re wrong.

Like you do.

But like just the knowledge of that. And just especially for men, like I w I wish that you could work with. You know how the 12 week period where, you get all men clients, I would love that actually, because I was going to say, I don’t know if you would, but I would love it.

All right. I have one last question for you and then I’ll let you get on with your day. This is a fill in the blank as well. If I were speaking to a friend who was considering doing this program, here’s what I would want them to know. Here’s what I want them to know. I would say just do it I think.

I definitely, one of the things I do appreciate about you is that I can tell from the get-go that you want it to make this worth, like you want it to fulfill your end of the bargain, so to speak. And I know that can sometimes be there can be this like, like you really want to deliver and you will really want to help people and stuff, but you did a really good job of not having an agenda and whatever pace I was going at, like you could match that.

And it wasn’t about you. Like at no point, did I feel like your own ego was trying to get me to get to a certain point? So you could say I had a client do this. And I did always feel. And I think that’s a a measure of a good coach or a good whatever you want to call it is that they’re going at your pace and you’re in the driver’s seat.

Like they’re not being like, you need to do this. You’re like, Hey, like this might be something to think about or whatever you did a good job. I think of

pushing me gently in the direction. I need to go without pushing me too much. And I don’t like, I can’t see I can’t see an outcome where somebody would be able to do this or would do this and wouldn’t get something really good out of it. I’m a big believer in the coaching. Just in the coaching world, just in general, because I think it can be so helpful because you’re working with somebody who has either a specific knowledge set that you want to know, and or somebody who has actually done something that you want to do.

Like they’ve made it to a point and they know how to teach or help you get to where you want to go. And I just like, again, I can’t really see somebody doing this and being like, yeah, like I didn’t really get anything out of it. It just there’s too much to get. You have a very interesting, like wealth of knowledge.

That is very like, you’re like me about some like random oh really? How did you know about that? And I think like I I recognize that too that you and I are probably more alike than we are different on some core levels, but yeah, I would just, I would say some, so somebody like just do it and I would be absolutely shocked if you weren’t like, thanks for telling me to do that.

Thank you. That means a lot. Thank you so much.


All right. I hope that was helpful. I hope it gave you some really big insights into some of the transformations and breakthroughs and insights that you have as a client. If you want to work with me as a trauma healing and nervous system coach. So I told you at the beginning of the episode, that I would give you all the details about my coaching program and how to apply at the end of the episode.

And that is where we have arrived. So here are the details. My holistic trauma healing coaching program is an intense, customized 12 week coaching program. And this coaching program, I meet you wherever you’re at. You don’t have to have any prior knowledge of trauma or the nervous system. You don’t have to already be on your own spiritual journey or healing journey.

You don’t have to know anything coming into this. I’m happy and willing to meet you wherever you are. Second of all, this program is entirely customized for you. This is not a cookie cutter, one size fits all program. I don’t have the same program for all of my clients. Again, if I’m meeting you right where you are, everyone is in a different place.

And that means I’m going to meet you and your own unique place. I help my clients learn to practice awareness and consciousness. I also help them learn nervous system regulating tools that feel good and their bodies and how to learn, how to read their nervous systems, feel their feelings and shift the state of their nervous systems naturally and gently rather than forcing.

I also help my clients discover if they have brain inflammation or not, because your brain is definitely impaired and inflamed. Whenever you experience trauma, the same as if you had experienced an actual physical concussion. And so a lot of us can be doing all the bottom up things like the breath work and the nervous system regulation and all of that, and not experience healing results.

And that’s because we haven’t addressed the brain. So. Big piece of my work with all of my clients is we’re really, really looking at possible brain inflammation as a reason why you might be feeling stuck or unable to regulate your nervous system or whatever it is that. Aren’t enjoying about your life.

It really could be in your head, but not in the way that I think you’re making it up. I know you’re not making it up, but it could be in your head literally like you have inflammation in your brain and I actually have tools, um, that can be really helpful for reducing inflammation in your. I also help clients work on their lifestyle.

I help them make those hard decisions to set boundaries, to quit jobs that aren’t serving them to learn what yes and no feels like in their bodies and begin to make aligned choices and action steps that are going to help them consciously create the life that they want, because they’re ready to get out of the past.

Right. They’re ready to bust out of the past. They’re ready to. Shine the light in the darkness and recognize that hidden programming and that autopilot and how that’s creating the life. They currently have that they’re not loving. So we do all of that inside of this container. And the 12 weeks involves six one-on-one calls.

So that means you get a call with me on zoom every other week. Now, a big question that I get a lot is wait a minute. I want to meet with my coach once a week. I don’t want to meet with you every other week. Why am I only going to meet with you six times instead of 12 times? And my answer to that is pretty simple actually.

And it’s that. I’m not just giving you homework, like journaling prompts or, um, specific practices to do on a weekly basis. The foundation of my work is awareness and consciousness. And that’s not something that you learn how to do in one week. It’s not even something that some people learn how to do in an entire 12 weeks, or at least they learn it, but they don’t feel like they’ve mastered it.

And so. A lot of the work that you’re doing is actually happening in between our calls. Sure. You will have breakthroughs on our calls. You will have powerful moments of insights. I experience it almost every time I hop on a call with a client, but the majority of the hard work is how you’re practicing on a daily basis.

Minute by minute, and the transformations and breakthroughs and insights that you’re experiencing. So I don’t want to leave you hanging, uh, over two weeks of not having a call with me. I don’t wanna leave you hanging or feeling unsupported. So all of my clients receive office hour support on both slack.

And Voxer and the client can choose which app they prefer to use. If you prefer to write things out, then slack is probably the better option. If you like to talk things out, then boxer is the better option, but you have access to both. And I answer questions and provide support during office hours.

Although I do occasionally check in on the weekends, even if I’m not really supposed to, but I don’t feel like I’m violating my own boundaries, but. Um, and then you also, as a coaching client of mine, you receive lifetime access to my online community membership, the trauma healers circle, and inside the trauma healers circle, you receive bonus podcast episodes.

You also receive guided meditations that I record. And we also do a monthly group coaching call. And very often I bring in other experts, therapists, people who are the top at what they do in their field. And they lead us in things like group embodiment practices, group hypnotherapy, group, breath, work, um, all kinds of fun group stuff.

And it’s a great place to find your people, to find other people and connect with other people. Also recognize how trauma has impacted every aspect of their existence and are also learning how to regulate their nervous systems and our also spirit and consciousness junkies, and who want to meet other people who understand.

And so that is also part of my coaching program is a lifetime membership to that. Um, oh, the other thing that my. Trauma healers circle people receive is my course belief beyond the binary. And that’s a $222 course. And it’s included in membership, which means it’s also included in a coaching package because lifetime membership to the circle is included to that as well.

I do have a payment plan available if finances are concerned. So I’ll also go ahead and tell you. What your financial investment is to work with me. So for 12 weeks, six one-on-one calls, office hours support on both slack and Voxer, a lifetime membership to my trauma healer circle and access to my course belief beyond the binary.

The total investment at this time is 1999. Or if you need a payment plan, we can divide that into three monthly payments of $700. I don’t give any kind of discount or a scholarship for my coaching program, because it is the most energetically intense investment for me. So I am showing up for you just like you’re showing up for yourself.

I am there for you. I am providing support. Um, co-regulation. Real time stuff and it’s energetically an investment for me. And so I try to provide offerings at other lower price points, like my nervous system, 1 0 1 workshop, my course belief beyond the binary, which you can purchase by itself. I also have a group program called nervous system hygiene.

Those are things that I offer at lower price points, but my coaching at this time, I don’t offer any scholarships or discounts because I’m going to show up for you. If, if you’re getting a discount, I’m gonna show it for you the same way that I’m showing up for people who don’t. So it just makes it fair for me and for you, if everyone pays the same price.

So if you want to learn more and working with me feels like a yes, and your body, um, had to Lindsey lockett.com forward slash apply. You can write. All the details of the coaching program there, as well as my own story and the results that I’ve got. There’s also some testimonials from Chris, as well as other clients.

And there’s a link where you can apply. It’s a Google form application. Um, you can click on it, apply, and I usually respond within 48 to 72. So that is all I have for you at this time. And I’m taking a very limited number of clients for the summer. Um, I want to spend my summer laying on the grass of the sun and petting Moss and going swimming and playing in my garden.

So I spend less time coaching. So I will only be taking a limited number of clients for the summer, and I will be choosing those. By the middle of may. So don’t wait if you want to work with me. Um, again, that link is Lindsay locket.com forward slash apply. And I sincerely hope that this episode with one of my clients was helpful for you.

I hope it was insightful. And it gave you information that I can’t really write about on 📍